Today’s guests, Alyce Tran and Rey Vakili are heading up the Australian expansion of influencer platform, LTK – which has just been valued at $2 billion dollars after it’s recent investment round. In this episode, we chat about why people of influence are still a vital part of any marketing strategy and the importance of creating great content.
Key Takeaways
- Tech businesses are pulling talent away from fashion and editorial brands – businesses like Youtube, Netflix and others are pulling fashion experts into their brands because they are seeing the value of a fashion and trend forecasting perspective.
- LTK are moving towards calling people of influence, content creators, as recognition of the amount of work that goes into building up a following.
- Future proofing a business requires brands to be on more than just one channel, and understanding which channels their audiences are on.
- Having access to data as an influencer is empowering because if a content creator knows they are selling product for a specific brand, then they are equipped to go to that brand and demand for higher prices, opportunities with companies that align more to their audience and values.
- Engagement and accessibility are the keys to being a great influencer.
- There are different types of influencers – those who represent your brand from an awareness perspective and those that drive sales.
Podcast Transcript
Claire Deane:
Welcome to my guests for today. Rey Vakili and Alyce Tran who are both joining me from Sydney. Thanks so much for joining us today. So tell me, so both of you are working at LTK, and that’s what we’re here to chat about today. So I’d love to know a little bit more about what that is. What are you doing for them? How did you come to be involved?
Rey Vakili:
Yeah, I’ll jump in. So LTK, it sort of stands for like to know it. The company was formally referred to as reward style. Now we call it LTK and it’s basically a platform that allows content creators to monetize their content throughout their social channels, whether that’s YouTube, Instagram stories, TikTok or blog. And so on one hand, you’ve got this sort of platform that allows content creators to monetize their content. On the other hand, it brings greater transparency and data tracking to brands that are available on the platform for influencers to link to. And then, I guess on the sort of third side, it is the consumer sort of shopping app destination that allows consumer to shop looks from their favorite influencers. In that sense, it allows influencers to create storefronts for themselves that are, you know, monetizable completely shopable and it gives consumers access to all of these looks.
Claire Deane:
It was a brand born in the US and you’ve brought it out to Australia. What did you see about the Australian market that made it suitable for bringing it out here?
Rey Vakili:
Well, it’s a Dallas-based company. The founders Amber Box and Baxter Box are amazing, super inspiring and I actually worked for the company when it was first launching in London, so that’s how my relationship began with them. And when I was working in London, Alyce actually approached me about the daily edited coming onto the platform. Alyce, you wanna maybe speak a little bit?
Alyce Tran:
So I’ve experienced LTK from a brand perspective. So it’s a fantastic marketing channel and a huge marketing channel for brands in scaling into the US and Europe and obviously where, you know, he had to kind of create that whole scale for Australian brands who are wanting to do more work in the domestic market, but maybe have an overseas view as well. So I really loved working with LTK because TDE was a brand very much born on Instagram and grew through influencers and same with my new business in the roundhouse, which is very much Instagram influencer, then retail, that kind of journey. And when you are working with creators influencers you’re stabbing around a bit, right? Like you work with people because you like the brand alignment or what they stand for or their general aesthetic, but then it gets to a point where your accountant might be like, what is this equating to you?
Alyce Tran:
Like mention the results and stuff. So working with creators through LTK enables you to track those results, as Rey said, and actually demonstrate ROI on the spend that you are doing, whether that is gifting or, you know, paid collaborations. So that, and I loved the brand. I mean, there are other platforms and stuff out there, no denying it, but this one is the best one globally in terms of functionality, from a creative perspective, from a brand perspective. And so that’s why I really was excited to get behind it with Rey in rolling it out in Australia. Cause I’m like this works. It’s something that I’m happy to get behind. You know, I’ve had good results with my previous businesses on it. And, as Rey says, like love the brand. So I think that part of it as well.
Claire Deane:
So you’ve both come together to work on this tech company. So let’s take a step back, Alyce, you’ve come from that product background. Can you tell me a little bit about how you got to this point where you started and where you got to now?
Alyce Tran:
I guess I’ve, I’m known to be someone who works in consumer goods effectively, right? So with the daily editor was creation of product and marketing that product, same within the roundhouse. And I’ve got a few other things in the pipeline, but at the end of the day, this is a product right there is, as Rey says, a consumer product here. It’s the LTK app where you can shop your favorite creator looks. So in terms of like marketing it and getting the messaging out and the service of customers, whether that be consumers or influencer is kind of the same principles. So we are here trying to get awareness for a brand, get customers onto it. So use a buy-in and do a really good job for them. So yes, although it is a tech business, the core business principles and the aspects of the business and the issues that it runs into are by and large the same as a product business, like a physical product business.
Claire Deane:
And Rey, your background’s super diverse. So you study political science at Yale, and then you were analytical assistant at American Vogue. What kinds of things have you learned in your career that’s kind of equipped you for this tech business, LTK?
Rey Vakili:
I guess, yeah, I’ve had a very diverse background. But I think LTK, for me has kind of been the crossroads of all of these different experiences coming together. I’ve got a background in fashion from having worked in Vogue. You know, I went to business school after that. I’m super passionate about tech businesses, startups, and in many ways what we are doing Alyce and I in Australia is a startup based on a sort of more established business that also is in many ways a startup, because, you know, it’s been around for 10 years, but still a private company. And so we’re trying to build it from the ground up here. And yeah, like I said, it combines a lot of my passions and interests as well. It’s fashion-focused. It’s looking at the creative space that I think that I really do believe is the way of the future for brands and marketing. And it’s sort of providing a mechanism for influencers to monetize and, as I mentioned, they’ve been around for 10 years and only now are we seeing other big tech companies realizing how important it is to jump on this bandwagon of allowing these content creators to be recognized for the work they’re doing for these brands. So, I think it does sort of relate to all the aspects that I’ve covered.
Claire Deane:
It’s all building on each other. I read an article on the cut this morning, too, about how fashion editors are all leaving magazines and leaving that kind of print-based world and moving into tech companies that Pinterest and Instagram and all of the big channels, even Netflix all have fashion editors that they’re pulling into their networks because they wanna be able to work with them because they bring that unique perspective.
Rey Vakili:
I mean, if you look at YouTube, I think they’ve got Derek Blasberg as the fashion sort of editor. Then I know that Sy Drummond from Vogue went to YouTube. I think they’ve got someone else there now as their director, but, you know, they are recognizing like the real value of fashion in the tech space, I guess.
Claire Deane:
And content creation in the tech space as well. And you’re an influencer yourself. How do you think that’s kind of influenced your want to work for this kind of brand?
Rey Vakili:
It’s funny. I am an influencer sort of, I still find it strange, like associating myself with that because it really did sort of just fall into my lap in the sense that I think a few articles were published about Anna’s assistant back in the day and I sort of had a lot of new followers and then, you know, slowly brands started approaching me since moving back to city. Yes. I’ve definitely sort of, taken on this role of content creation a lot more seriously. And I think it’s sort of, I think the interesting thing and why Alyce and I work so well together is that, you know, I do have that understanding and experience of what the influencer side wants and Alyce having come from you build the building. These two successful brands really understands the brand side and you know, what brands are looking for when they’re trying to build their companies. So, having both of those perspectives, I think, has been really helpful for us when we’re approaching brands to come onto the platform or trying to recruit influencers, to get them on board.
Claire Deane:
And do you like the term influencer? Do you prefer content creator or as influencer to use?
Rey Vakili:
I know the company prefers, I mean, we’re moving more into the direction of content creator because I think what a lot of people of influence are doing now is creating this unique, beautiful content. And I think to have an edge now in this space, you really do have to be creating unique content and like thinking about what’s your spin, what’s your approach? Otherwise, it’s just such a saturated market now that you do have to have some point of difference when it comes to that sort of creative side.
Alyce Tran:
I just think in Australia in particular, because there is this sense of like tall poppy and things like that, the influencer name and there should be nothing wrong with that. A lot of my friends outside of Rey also are influencers. But there has been some sort of negative connotation on that term. And so I think, we have moved to the word creator, plus I think for some reason, influencer was a term that sort of was very tied with Instagram and, like Rey and I was saying, we’re looking at people who make content across a range of different mediums, not just Instagram. But yes, it’s a real shame that the word influencer is somewhat being tainted in the Australian market.
Rey Vakili:
I think content creator might just sort of takes into account the amount of work that actually falls behind a lot of this imagery or videos or TikTok things that we’re seeing, it’s more work than what it might have been back in the day when it was organice.
Alyce Tran:
But there are still people who do organic content have like, you know, a really good rate and good aesthetic that are still very meaningful. Contributors to this space and people that brands wanna work with.
Claire Deane:
But it does take a lot of work than it is. And yeah, it’s not just a matter of showing up. You do have to actually understand the trends and you have to put that work into creating that unique content. I guess I’m just touching on a point that you had at least about how influencer was tied to Instagram. How important is it for brands as someone who’s built multiple brands to be able to kind of track across all of these different channels? Like why is that important to you as a brand builder?
Alyce Tran:
Well, I wouldn’t wanna have all my eggs in one basket, which is why when I create a brand, I’m always thinking about the different avenues of sales. So yes, Instagram is one that I’m really like adept and across. So like very heavily lean into that, because that is my generation. But if I wanna sell to the next generation of consumers, they’re not even on Instagram. Right. So, you know, always thinking about different channels and from a retail perspective where, you know, I go there because that’s an older consumer that I can come across by working with more traditional retailers and things. So for me, it’s just diversification and future-proofing of a business to be across multiple channels.
Claire Deane:
And what about the measurement piece? Because that’s what we try to work really hard at, Flaunter is making sure that PRs understand how important it is to brands that they can measure all of this data that they actually can track what they’re doing. Are you finding that brands are really across that and influencers are still trying to get to that space or do you find that everyone’s really?
Alyce Tran:
Yeah. So I think brands are now. Okay. So like five years ago at TDE, for example, I would just be very excited if we got some amplification with influencer. Now when I think about marketing and the cost of marketing, the cost of conversion, the cost of a click and stuff, I think everyone is very now much more obsessed with that from a business perspective. And as a result, the brands have started to educate the influencers on this. If you speak to creators who are doing, sponsored content or marketing with particular brands, they are using some format of tracking or reporting, right. As simple as something like a screenshot with the person’s insight in it through to something more sophisticated like LTK. So I definitely think accountability of marketing dollars in this space has accelerated a lot. So I just haven’t come across very many people who are just happy to pay for sponsor content without really understanding what they’re getting in return for it. Whereas I think five years ago that couldn’t, that they just wanted to get into the space or onto the platform.
Claire Deane:
Which kind of comes a bit back to your point, Rey, that there is a lot of work that goes into being an influencer, not just in the content creation side, but also in the reporting and in the management of brands, relationships, and all of those kinds of things. You have to understand the data to be able to report back what’s working and what’s not.
Rey Vakili:
And even from the perspective of an influencer, I guess, it’s been interesting to see this evolution of brands as well. Like I remember, I would say like last year, maybe beginning of last year, people were not even asking for insights and then it sort of goes to the number of likes, then it goes to the number of comments and then it goes to the number of views. And so like understanding how engaged your audiences are, right to the point where reward style can offer you, LTK creator can offer you insights into how many people are actually going on to purchase that product or click through to that product. And I think that’s really where the value comes for brands and also influencers. I think having that data as an influencer is also really empowering because if you know that you are selling product for a specific brand, then you are equipped to go to that brand and demand for higher prices, demand for opportunities that think with companies that align more to your audience.
Rey Vakili:
And I think America has been really ahead of the curve with this. This is very much a new concept in Australia. And you know, that’s not to say there aren’t competitors in the market because there definitely are. But you know, just from a lot of the brands that we’ve approached this ability to understand conversions and which influencers are actually driving sales is a real, sort of asset to them as well.
Claire Deane:
Awesome. So Alyce, you’ve built a number of businesses from scratch. How do you think building businesses from scratch has prepped you for launching LTK?
Alyce Tran:
So I guess I just have like big picture thinking, like expectation, not reasonable expectations and what can be achieved with what resources it’s not like I’ve come in blind and gone, you know, this can happen in one month. Like we look at things on a quarter by quarter basis. Very realistic about how fast the uptake is gonna be from a brand and in influence perspective, structuring like the team and working out where to best allocate our resources and things. Because you know, when you’re starting a business, you can’t just do everything at once. You’re looking at say inventory and maybe like an inventory management system, then you’re like, oh, now we’re gonna get this and now we’re gonna get that, you can’t just roll out and do everything at the same time. So I think, that kind of experience in not slow and steady, but you know, just understanding the trajectory of any product in this market, has just given me a sense of like what I should be achieving and what can be achieved in certain timeframes.
Claire Deane:
And how do you think having that existing brand in the US has either helped or made it more difficult for you to be able to build LTK in Australia?
Alyce Tran:
I definitely think it helps because, LTK has done so well in America and in the UK. And that success story is so and so hiring from both a brand and influencer perspective. So brands are seeing what sort of sales volumes can be done through this channel? And then equally, as we say with influencers, there are LTK millionaires women who have earned a fantastic living off of being able to create an audience, refer to that audience products that they love, and make sales for those brands in that kind of very entrepreneurial partnership. So I definitely think, that has been a fantastic launchpad for Rey and I, so we’re very lucky that they’ve done so well there, and there are so many good creators and brands on board already.
Claire Deane:
And how do you think the US and UK and Australian markets are different, both from a consumer perspective, as in terms of how we engage with social media and how we buy from influencers and those kinds of things and the actual content creators themselves, how are they different amongst the markets?
Rey Vakili:
I think the US is just a much bigger market. And they’ve had exposure to this kind of sort of data and tracking for much longer than we have. So in terms of like consumer habits, little things like being comfortable shopping on your phone, swiping up, understanding just how to really engage with these social platforms. I think naturally we see much higher conversions in the US and in recent months, the UK as well, a big part of our job is sort of educating consumers to become more comfortable with that training. I guess, training influences to consistently link to make it more accessible to their audiences. I think there’s a mentality here where America is the capitalist culture, the sense of like commercial everything.
Alyce Tran:
They’ve got background of shopping from catalogs, referral selling for some time and Australians are just not quite used to that, right? Like the Avon lady, and that is a very American concept and has not been as successful in Australia. But as races, like there’s so much connectivity between markets now and influencers are not just country bound. We follow creators based in the US. So seeing that behavior and we are acquiescing to it, you know? So, in some ways like if this was 20 years ago, it would be different, but because consumers sort of worship the same kind of content and creators it does, I think in some way, make it a little bit, easy to replicate that culture and Australia than it, than it ever has.
Claire Deane:
And do you think there’s a difference in the way that Australian brands approach us UK Australian influences? Or do you think it’s, again, like you’re saying become much more, cohesive across all the countries because we are so interconnected?
Alyce Tran:
So I think, interestingly from a brand perspective, brands are willing to take more risks in new markets so that a lot of brands are coming to us going, oh no, we’ve got Australia locked up. Like we know who’s who, when the zoo here. But in America, where we are having to take some risks and not they’re calculated risks, like where the team are casting the right creators and stuff for them to get their messaging and drive sales out. But I guess when you are expanding, you are more willing to test and learn than in an existing market that you may have been, you may be more established in.
Rey Vakili:
And I think that’s where the real value out of LTK comes, right? Because they’ve got this global network of influences. They’re not just in Australia, if you’re an Australian brand that wants to say launch in the US, if you wanna launch in France, Germany, Portugal, there is an established network of influences that they have years of data on that can assist these brands with their market launch when they decide the time is right.
Claire Deane:
So for Australian brands, it’s tapping into existing networks that are already established in some of these other countries that might be a bit more foreign to us in terms of who the players are in.
So what are some of the strategies that you’ve used to launch LTK in Australia what’s worked well and what maybe hasn’t worked as well that you thought would?
Alyce Tran:
It’s been really a difficult time because we got this remit to really bring LTK into Australia and around April, May or this year, and then we’ve been hit with this in the lockdown scenario. Which was meant to go for two weeks. So it really derailed some of our more traditional marketing plans with like events, application through that traditional media, you would’ve seen if things had gone well, you would’ve seen us do an event in July in the paper and you would’ve had that natural kind of traction. And so we’ve had to really pivot, and it has been hard to like reach out to both brand influencers in this kind of virtual way in the way that we are speaking together now. but you know, it’s just a lot of the time for me, it’s testing and learning. So, speaking to just a few brands at a time, understanding their feedback, pivoting the next kind of presentation for a brand and kind of moving on. So unfortunately the initial strategy has been totally thought of. And you know, and now we’ve just had to do things a bit more organically in this kind of time.
Rey Vakili:
I think it has been a lot harder for release on the brand side, just because obviously a lot of brands are becoming more cautious as this sort of drags on, as it is on the influencer side. I think there has been a real opportunity in the sense that people are rethinking how they are approaching this, rethinking their strategies, how can they tap into new avenues to monetize their content? And I find that they just, by nature of being at home and not being able to do as much have had a lot more time to explore these options, to talk to us. And it’s been received really well. On one hand, it’s been a struggle, but on the other hand, there has been sort of some positive things to come out of this, and we’re trying to take advantage of everyone being at home and linking to their sneakers and their athleisure wear and their comfort clothing.
Alyce Tran:
So generally when they, as an uptick in like online sale or something like this should go really well, but because we are new to market, it has been hard for me to approach a retailer with significant retail, physical retail assets, and be like, “Do you want marketing channel?” And they’re just like, “Oh my God, keep heads above water now.”
Claire Deane:
Do you think the longer that the lockdown extends, the more likely they will be to then jump on tools like this because, as you say, having all your eggs just in the physical retail basket?
Alyce Tran:
Just don’t know what’s going to happen as we were potentially. But as we were discussing at the start, people are very fatigued right now. So yes, of course, we saw this as an opportunity, but you know, we don’t wanna be opportunistic if businesses are, not suffering, but you know, not doing as well as they might have expected. So in some ways it’s still, you’ve gotta be like sensitive to the situation. But you know, let’s say we’ve still got essentially two of this lockdown, but everyone’s so tight. It’s quite hard to get things done because implementing something like LTK business is not difficult for a SME where you’ve sort of maybe got a few decision-makers, might be a marketing team and a director of a business and done easy.
Alyce Tran:
It’s hard when I’m speaking to larger listed retailers who have 40 people in marketing that sort of need to get across this cuz t’s a technology implementation onto a website, which is very easy. So I don’t wanna break anyone out, but there does need to be kind of talking between PR influencer marketing and performance marketing, effective fleet, because there’s a commission trail for the creators who refer to sales. So it has been really interesting jumping into calls with say, large department stores with eight different people and God knows why they all go away and they’re not in an office together.
Claire Deane:
And so how have you got any insight into like techniques or anything that you’ve been using to get people engaged with a new tech product? Because we’re all very stuck in our ways. We wanna do things the way that we’ve always done. The industry is quite notorious for that, but have you found any great ways of getting people excited about new tech?
Alyce Tran:
I think it’s actually just showing. So for creators, when I show creators how easy it is to create these links and embed them into their content so that they can literally monetize their content. As Rey has said, they’re like, “Oh my God. Wow.” Like that it’s that easy. What some feedback we got was like, “Oh my God, it’s so easy.” I don’t know what more people could want. Like it’s just like so amazing, you know? And part of it is showing people, having them experience that. And with this, it’s saying like, unlike something like Instagram, when that launch was just like photo filters and really easy to get your head around, there’s a couple of aspects to this business. So from a creative perspective, that’s what we’re showing them from a consumer perspective. It’s showing them a different app. So it’s quite a few different things that we have to deal with. So from me, strategy-wise, I’m almost like I think we should just work on the brand and create, and we’ve kind of left the consumer piece for later on just because the two of us attacking those three aspects of this business within this timeframe was just like a bit difficult.
Rey Vakili:
And I think that’s how the US has approached as well. You know, traditionally they haven’t done very much marketing because the influencers are doing all the marketing for them. So they really rely on influencers to educate their consumers, not the company itself to educate consumers on what they need to do. And I think another strategy that’s sort of worked well for us in addition to showing people how easy it is sort of leading by example, like Alyce and I have been using the links a lot trying to build a little bit of hype, but also trying to get the real influencers using these links and talking about it and making sure they’re happy with the service, because, you know, if Elle Ferguson linking to LTK a lot, then you’ll be like, “Oh, what’s that I’m gonna look into it.” And I think having these people, supporting the business and excited about the business is a real plus for us. And it’s something that we’re gonna sort of keep trying to do and make sure that we have real case studies of what success looks like.
Alyce Tran:
We keep saying to content creators in Australia is that there are women with audiences of similar sizes in the US that are just smashing it. So why shouldn’t that be you effectively? A lot of these content creators have in Australia have audiences, like we said, outside of Australia as well, they could be like the real champions for Australian designers, retailers and things like that. You know, how Australian fashion is so world class, right? So if you are a creator, why wouldn’t you just back into all of these natural relationships that you have and wear all Australian brands and amplify that out, drive sales for these Australian brands and really become like this making money along the way. And you’re being a part of a very meaningful ecosystem. So really that’s what I wanted to achieve with this, because I was like, wow, this is a platform that my friends can really like smash it on and export their product into the US. And we’ve seen brands like Zimmerman do really well on this platform. So there is a pathway to success on this.
Claire Deane:
It’s both the content creators themselves can be a unique channel for promoting Australian fashion to the world. But also the brands have that opportunity to be able to leverage the unique perspective that Australian creators bring as well. Rey, one of the things you were talking about Elle Ferguson before, obviously someone who now has multiple businesses and multiple brands, how do you think you influencers are uniquely positioned to leverage that influencer, and I guess you are the same Alyce, leveraging your influence to then be able to branch out into multiple brands from there.
Rey Vakili:
I mean, just look at Kim Kardashian, right? Kim sold out in DJs, sold out on the website, sold out the power of these people is just incredible. And I think if you’re not doing everything you can to take advantage of this, what might be a small window. And I think this is also how we pitch LTK to people as well, right? You’ve got a window of time where you might have this huge amount of influence. And where people care about you and you’re relevant, do whatever you can to maximize everything that’s coming in, whether that’s launching a product, whether that’s monetizing your content through links, every single link and doubling your potential revenue through passive swipe up, like that’s such a little thing that you can do. I mean, Elle has two incredible businesses, Elle Ferguson, Elle Effect, and it would really be a missed opportunity not to take advantage of that platform by whether it is launching your own brand or future proofing her content as well.
Alyce Tran:
So what we probably have not made clear so far is that the LTK app, a standalone app outside of Instagram and it’s crazy algorithms and TikTok and whatever algorithms happening there. So, you know, through the LTK app, a creator can have their own storefront as Rey touched on, but it is another channel for diversification. And in the same way that I said diversification for a brand is important. Like I wouldn’t only be marketing on one channel. Same goes like an influencers business must be diversified. It does not make sense. And you would’ve seen the drop off from Facebook, mine came and went. Instagram, like they don’t even release what the new downloads are because who knows what the growth is. I don’t even wanna speak out turn, but you know what I mean? Like people are migrating to new apps and outlets for social media constantly. So you just need to be like, everyone’s gonna be on it. It kind of suck, but this is life.
Claire Deane:
So on that note, what do you think it takes to be a really great influencer?
Rey Vakili:
I think engagement and accessibility, right? So people want to be able to connect with influencers. And I think the influencers that you see converting the highest, selling the most product, moving the most, like they’re people that right back to their followers that are asking them, what size jeans are you wearing? You know, like, where did you get that top from? Where did you get those jeans from whatever. And so I think on one hand, people really wanna engage with these influencers, they wanna emulate their lifestyle. They wanna buy the same couch and we’re seeing this move into every vertical of your life. You know, it’s fashion to begin with then beauty now, homewares and lifestyle, everything to travel, and holidays. So I think, yes, you do have those more aspirational, beautiful content creators that are creating this super lux life that many of us will never be able to replicate. But then you’ve got the real, super-engaged influencers that are constantly sort of responding to their followers, providing the links that they need, swipe up to shop those looks, and just making their lifestyle something that other people can replicate.
Claire Deane
And what about from a business perspective, from the content creation that accessibility, does a really good influence just need to have that business mindset?
Alyce Tran:
For me, they’re the ones that are easiest to work with because they understand what my objectives are in working with them. There are some people that I may work with purely for an aesthetic or positioning point of view. But even then I am working with you for positioning, that the ones that people who really understand are very easy to work with and will probably get repeat business. People who don’t understand that, you’ve got the position to work with them once it’s one and done. So I think people who have longevity in this space have a vague understanding of why a brand would work with them.
Rey Vakili:
I think, Alyce and I have spoken about this a lot, but like as a brand, you should always be thinking about sort of two types of influencers. One is like, who do you want to represent your brand aesthetically? Who is that ideal vision? What does your brand represent? Those are those influencers, but then there are the influencers that actually move product and they wanna be really different to the ones that you think that your brand is. And I think there’s a lot for brands to learn from this as well. And there’s a lot for brands to gather from, data shows these sales, like who is really selling your products. Like,is it the super lux person or is it the mom next door that has three kids, packing lunches. I think brands are open to the data that they’re receiving as well. And aren’t just so fixated on a specific vision of what the brand should be. They can also learn a lot from who’s actually driving the sales.
Alyce Tran:
It’s very interesting, because a lot of people have an idea of who wears or uses their product. And then like for me, you’d stand in a TD store and the diversity of customer would be amazing. And I know that a diversity of customer for roundhouse is amazing too. You know, it’s a girl who might have just moved out through to a lady who’s hosting a 60th birthday for her husband and the plates having a run. So it’s recognized. It’s interesting because it depends on the brand and who is marketing their product. So when you work with pure marketers, they get very fixated on what this brand aesthetic is and what the brand story is. And don’t really think outside of that and like who is actually wearing your product and buying your product. And so, therefore, who was referring the sale, it might be that high fashion brand but it might be that, a 60 year old lady, wears one of his beautiful suits and influences women in that space to buy that product. And he’s not, he’s not even thinking now.
Alyce Tran:
So, you know, it’s very interesting. And he has to like accept that the product going into the hands of someone that he wasn’t creating it for, but who cares it’s so tense or whatever.
Claire Deane:
Exactly. So touching on this, on a topic we were talking about just a little bit earlier, there’s been a bit of backlash around the influencer space recently with influencers not being transparent when they’re being paid. Some of those kinds of things or faux paths in the media and that kind of thing. How do you think influencers make sure that they remain relevant and how do they almost beat that stereotype we were talking about before about the influencer and what that connotation has in Australia.
Alyce Tran:
See, I think although there is this backlash, it’s a tall poppy thing. I actually think they are so relevant. We are spending so much time on our phones and on social media, different mediums. So although the media like to write these things about these content creators, the buy-in from consumers is still really strong. So like when I saw this question, I was like, interesting. Beause I don’t actually think that’s true. Look at one of the biggest stories in the influencer space this week. And I think you would know what I’m talking about. Decrease in audience size there.
Claire Deane:
Yeah. Right. That’s interesting. Isn’t it? Very interesting. Anything you’d like to add there?
Rey Vakili:
I agree with Alyce, I think influencers are more relevant than ever before, just because of how much time we are sort of spending on our phones. I think this issue of transparency has become a lot clearer. Like again, it was like the wild wild west people didn’t really know what the rules were, what anything was and we’ve seen some real crackdowns. And so brands, as much as influencers are like specifying, you need to call us an ad. You need to have certain hashtags. It needs to have the paid sponsorship tag as well. But you know, I, I guess my approach as an influencer has always been to only represent brands that do feel authentic to me, you know? And I think there that’s when you see the best results as well, because you know, you’re constantly using the products that make sense in your story and narrative. You’re not pushing any language, what product and in the same way that the influencer space is really saturated. So is this sort of product marketing and stuff like that. And at the end of the day, you see it in your engagement as well as an influencer people engage less with the content that’s paid, the stuff that’s being pushed out to them are very hard on creators.
Alyce Tran:
Like I think this whole idea that they have, there is what is responsible disclosure and these ad standards that I look at all the time for brands, because obviously it’s an area that I have to be across and I have a legal background too. So I always like to be across all of this stuff. I’m like, I think people are so hard on creators. It’s nuts. Like, if you watch the latest gossip girl, there is so much product placement in that, do they need a little caption in that says this whole scene was sponsored by a major online retailer? Absolutely not. I think also consumers need to take responsibility for what they’re consuming. So to me, as long as a creator is creating content that is not explicit, like wouldn’t be illegal in any format. I think it’s fine also on the brands too, like often you find that the brands are the ones not wanting for it to be tagged with an ad or that kind of thing too. Like it’s because they get effects engagement but we don’t really know that because who knows.
Rey Vakili:
I spoke with Amber who’s the founder of LTK and she said something really interesting, which was that when you go to Instagram, you’re going there for entertainment, right? It’s always been this traditionally, it’s been your distraction. It’s been your thing that you open when you’re a bit bored when you wanna control whatever. And so when anything comes up that disrupts that you kinda get a bit annoyed. So if someone’s trying to push an ad to you, you get a bit annoyed. If something sponsored, you get a bit annoyed, whereas LTK the app that we have is exclusively your shopping destination. So that’s actually a really interesting concept.
Alyce Tran:
I think it’s sponsored, basically it’s like you going onto Amazon going, why isn’t this an ad obviously.
Rey Vakili:
But it’s interesting when the intention is to go to something to shop it, your mindset’s very different as well. So, on the LTK app the conversion rate is sky high, because when you open that app, you are actually going there to shop a specific look versus seeing some product on Instagram that you’re like, is this a paid ad? Is it not? Like, I don’t really know. So you know, I think that’s something really interesting that they’re playing with. There is intent driven apps. Like when I go to Instagram, what do I wanna see when I go to LTK? I wanna shop when I go to YouTube, I wanna watch videos of people doing
Alyce Tran:
That’s where, you know, where I say, I say that, the media’s been harsh on this cuz I’m like, well, Instagram you’re allowed to have a profile as a brand. See, on LTK you can’t, it’s all influencer driven. So every post I put up for in the roundhouse is intended to market to you and sell news. Is that a new flash? No. Yeah. Obvious not must follow 50% brands. The other 50% might be individual. So I’m like, is it really used that rate by hold and in the round house plate with the intention of referring me a sale?
Rey Vakili:
That very true. What’s tricky is like now on Instagram, if you actually do something and you wanna talk about it and share it, you often see people in not sponsored posts. Like that’s to me, when you see that, it’s almost like, that’s a shame. Like can’t people just be talking, they like something they’re passionate about or things that they really love, like without coming across so I’ve been paid to do this.
Claire Deane:
Yeah. Good point, definitely. And all good things to think about as a brand and as a PR as well. So how do you think PRs should be working with influencers to get the best possible results for their brands?
Alyce Tran:
So it’s very interesting. So we’ve spoken to so many PR firms, like we are totally not here to like cut across any work that they do. Like the work that we do with LTK is really purely to enhance their ability to add value to their customers. So for us, if I was working in PR and a lot of my close friends were it’s about adding value for your client, right? So what are you spending time on? Like who are you casting as your, the creators for these brands to deliver value? How are you reporting back on that? And again, something like LTK can be very useful for a PR to streamline this process that they run for probably multiple brands, you know, at least 10 brands, let’s say if you work at a PR firm. So I think in terms of how they work with creators, it’s finding the ones that are the right creators that are aligned with the brand that can potentially sell the product and amplify the product in the correct manner. So, we were saying before previously, it was only ever about amplification, but I do think brands will be impressed if the spend also generated sales.
Rey Vakili:
And I was sort of just out of that, but the earlier point that we made of always keeping in mind, those two different types of influencers, like who is this brand and which influencer most, and then who is actually selling this brand, and sort of having a mix of both to make sure that you are branding it the way you want to be branding your brand, but also sort of learning from the people that are selling the products, learning from the ones that are actually dry.
Claire Deane:
And what have been some of your favorite examples of content creation or influencer marketing
Rey Vakili:
I think server label’s done amazing things this year with content creation. Especially, you know, the past two years more or less have been in lockdown. And so you’ve really seen the most beautiful parts of Australia. And it’s that sort of very aspirational content. I’ve loved a lot of the cooking content I might bias, but like Jess Newan, Big Sam young, I think has done incredible things for the industry for small businesses. I think there’s been a lot of support during this time. That’s been nice to see people supporting smaller brands, people supporting smaller restaurants, take away services. And I think that’s pretty cool to see everyone helping each other out.
Alyce Tran:
I’m very impressed by everyone sort of like pivot to video as well. I’m really terrible at videoing things. I’m still like on the static square. So, it is really exciting to see more of that video content come through across all the channels with IGTs or reels and then through to TikTok. So I have a massive appreciation for people who are able to do that.
Claire Deane:
Anyone in particular whose videos you love?
Alyce Tran:
No, I just like it when anyone can do. There’s an influencer called Xenia or something. She’s so funny. I will have to share her profile with you. I like the way that she gets dressed every morning and actually shows everything that she’s wearing. So, obviously that’s sponsored content, but she does it very well.
Claire Deane:
And finally, can you tell me what was the last thing that both of you Google for work?
Alyce Tran:
Interestingly, I was very interested to understand how large like LVMH brands appoint content creators. So I was doing Googling around that and, what metrics they use as some of the largest, most successful brands on the planet, very keen to see how they work. They’re not our clients yet. So that was what I was trying to figure out.
Rey Vakili:
Awesome. I was Googling at competitors and influences. That’s what I feel like I do every day.
Claire Deane:
Awesome. Well, thank you both so much for joining me. Do you want to just share where we can find you?
Alyce Tran:
Go to my Insta profile, Alyce_Tran because it has my email address there too. And all the other businesses that I’m working on should you wanna look up anything else.
Claire Deane:
And what about LTK where can we find them on socials and the web?
Alyce Tran:
So LTK.Australia is our Instagram handle
Rey Vakili:
Interested in applying as an influencer or a brand, please email.
Claire Deane:
Amazing. Thank you so much.
