Holly Hunt, founder and CEO of Hunt & Co, a boutique digital recruitment firm, joins Flaunter General Manager, Claire Deane in the third of our 2022 Trends in PR video series to talk about The Great Resignation, and how brands and agencies can attract and keep the best staff.
Interview Transcript
Claire Deane:
Welcome Holly Hunt, the CEO of Hunt & Co a boutique recruitment firm. Thank you so much for joining me.
Holly Hunt:
Great to be here. Thanks Claire.
Claire Deane:
So I’d love for you to kick things off by telling me a little bit about yourself, some of your career milestones to date and what you do at Hunt & Co.
Holly Hunt:
Yeah, absolutely. So look, I studied HR when I was at uni. I had a real interest in humans and organizational psychology decided after I finished uni that I wasn’t quite ready to start my career. So like most people went backpacking. And over there I kind of cut my teeth on digital marketing skills and small business skills came back to Australia, started in HR started in the recruitment agency. And at the time digital was just taking off. So you know, was invited to start a digital recruitment desk. Absolutely loved the industry, loved meeting candidates, learning about their careers, loved meeting clients. I had the opportunity after about a year to move into a digital marketing role. Yes. At the same time, I’d started women in digital, which is a networking group for women in the industry. Ran those two side by side, kept growing women in digital that community which is supporting women in their careers. I’ve run a recruitment agency for the last six years alongside women and digital events for women in the industry. So a few random career milestones have led me to this point.
Claire Deane:
And so Hunt & Co specializes in digital.
Holly Hunt:
Yeah, exactly. So digital marketing design PR software development.
Claire Deane:
Amazing. So there’s a lot of media coverage at the moment about this great resignation. Is this something that you are seeing in the industry, particularly PR industry, you know, are people up and quitting their jobs ready to go? Yeah.
Holly Hunt:
Yeah. It’s incredible. Like we are seeing the, a most unprecedented change in this industry and people just resigning without any roles to go to. And I think, you know, there’s, there’s a couple of reasons for this. Take it back to the start of the pandemic. A lot of candidates will let go of their, you know, the role that they had and often in sort of fashion, lifestyle, beauty you know, those, those roles or those industries did see a lot of candidates let go. When roles returned candidates were of course, you know, picked up again by different companies, but the psychological contract had changed. So, you know, there was just less loyalty and less engagement in that company’s outcome unless the kind of culture really facilitated that engagement. And I think, you know, people started to work remotely and decided that they wanted to make work, work for them.
Holly Hunt:
And they wanted to be able to be part of a company that, you know, where that line between their work and their personal had blurred that they were really, they felt like there was alignment and value alignment. So we are really seeing now that candidates are moving away from roles, which are, you know, somewhat commercially oriented, which often like fashion or eCommerce is. And they’re really wanting to find companies and organizations and roles that are really purpose driven and they’re having a positive impact on the world, which align with who they see themselves as. So yeah, the, the great resignation really is happening.
Claire Deane:
Mm. And how do you think that companies are responding to it? Are they, you know, the companies that, that do maybe have that transactional focus, are they starting to panic or are they, you know, not really identifying that, there’s a problem. What are you seeing on both sides of the industry?
Holly Hunt:
Yeah, I think everybody’s taking a different approach. So some companies are panicking, throwing more money at the problem and trying to buy loyalty which is, you know, having sort of mixed results. It’s not always effective. On the other hand, we’re seeing some companies kind of reflect and look at how they can change their organization and how they can build in purpose into the role. So for example, you know, is there a volunteering program that that company can kind of get involved with that will make employees feel better about you know, their positive contribution on top of, you know, their role say in e-commerce or fashion? I think most candidates realize that they can’t necessarily always work in curing cancer or changing the world, but they wanna work with a company that’s having, you know, a positive impact. So companies are really sort of attacking that in a mixed way.
Claire Deane:
And so there’s also been a lot of conversation lately about people switching industries. So it’s not just, you know, fashion people sticking in fashion or even PR people sticking to PR. You there’s a lot of fashion and editorial staff that are being pulled into tech companies, for example. So I saw recently that Nordstrom just hired Vogue dot coms executive fashion director. Is this something that you’re seeing in Australia that there’s kind of a talent drain away from editorial and fashion into tech?
Holly Hunt:
Yeah. Yeah. Look, I think it would be silly to say it’s just fashion tech is just absorbing sponging up candidates and talent from every single industry. So I think, you know, one other one that’s really struggling is education for example, but we are fashion and editorial. Talent often has those transferable skills around content writing or strategy or design. You’re seeing those kind of skills easily play into a technology company and where these tech companies are really, you know, they’ve got talent shortages because they’re just growing at exponential rates. You do see hiring managers and HR leaders going right. Well, what’s it gonna cost to reskill or transfer these people into these roles? And you know, for, for a lot of these companies, it’s cheaper to invest in a bit of training in a upskilling than it is to leave these roles vacant. So, yeah, it’s really, I think a lot of fashion and editorial companies are sort of struggling, especially where they, their workplace doesn’t necessarily facilitate work from anywhere. You know, you’ve got a technology business, that’s throwing money at a candidate, allowing them to work from anywhere on their own terms. It’s really hard to compete with that, if you are, you know, you’re not providing purpose and you’re not providing that work on your terms.
Claire Deane:
Mm. Is there anything that fashion, you know, fashion, lifestyle, beauty, those kind of industries can do to, to compete with that budget innovation in the FinTech sector?
Holly Hunt:
Yeah. Look, I think, you know, it’s, it’s worth companies reflecting on whether or not they can change that work from anywhere culture. For a lot of managers, it’s, it’s a bit scary to think, you know, can we just let people work on their to terms, can we trust them to work from home? But realistically, when we were in lockdown many cities were in lockdown, it worked and we often see candidates kind of doing, you know, two to three more hours work, dedicated, solid work than they would if they were in the office with those incidental conversations. And that’s new time. So I think, you know, that that’s, that’s definitely number one is looking at whether or not remote work is, is something your organization’s going to be comfortable with investing in your team’s skills. So I think candidates really want to feel like a company cares about them and is going to help them move with the, with the future of the industry.
Holly Hunt:
So even in fashion, you have fashions being infiltrated by technology businesses. How can you move your workforce forward and get them to use more tech skills in their role, which is gonna make them feel like, you know, this is a place where they wanna be for the future. I think creating a culture of innovation is definitely something that’s possible. What we have seen with some tech companies is having like a, the innovation day, for example, where employees will bring ideas about how they can work differently, what tech products they could potentially employ at work. One particular company, which I think is just phenomenal. They had an innovation day and an employee came with an idea for a new business and the, the directors were so enamored with that idea. They decided to start that company. And so a lot of, they just basically had come employees opt into working at that company. Those directors have actually sold out of that last business and have now continued to run that company. So imagine if there was a fashion organization, a team member had a great idea for a fashion tech product. Is that something your organization can foster instead of, you know, being disrupted, why not disrupt the industry yourself and come forth with ideas,
Claire Deane:
Especially because the ideas are gonna come from people who are working in the business every day that, you know, gonna see those problems and see, you know, ways they could potentially fix it. So tapping into that as a, as a resource is a great idea.
Holly Hunt:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, nobody knows fashion quite like people within the industry. So yeah, it would, it would definitely make sense.
Claire Deane:
So if PRS do wanna move into more of a tech space, do you think there’s any, you mentioned some of these skills around content writing and storytelling what skills do you think that they need to really hone or how can they present themselves in a way that is appealing to a tech organization?
Holly Hunt:
Yeah. I think if, you know, there’s somebody who wants to move into technology there’s a bunch of different roles that would make sense. Having initiative would probably be the number one trait or skill beyond their, any technical skills that I think employers are looking for and asking for the technology industry just moves so quickly. So demonstrating initiative is something that’s going to see you stand out ahead of other candidates. For example, we’ve got candidates that will just start new Instagram accounts to figure out how they can create a following and, you know, move into a social media by showing that initiative and actually just testing and testing and learning as they go. Definitely, yeah, that curiosity is, is what clients are looking for.
Claire Deane:
I had a conversation I was mentioning to you with Jessie from meld ventures. And she was saying, they’re looking for people who are just having a play in the NFT, you know, actually getting on and starting a Roblox account. And those kinds of things, people who are actually engaging with the platforms that they, you know, say they wanna work with.
Holly Hunt:
Yeah, exactly. So, you know, our number one question when we’re speaking to candidates is like, what’s your, what do you do after work? If we’ve got a candidate that literally switches off their computer and that’s the last thing they wanna do for the rest of the day, that’s okay. But a candidate that ends their day by going and gaming, particularly if they’re a software developer or they’ve got a side hustle, they’ve started an online business because they just wanna learn and practice and test their skills in digital marketing or PR maybe there’s a blog that they’re writing on the side. That is by are the number one thing that we’ll get a candidate across the line as far as an offer ahead of another candidate.
Claire Deane:
Awesome. So do you think that there is a difference in the way that organizations need to operate to keep senior staff versus junior staff? Are you finding, you know, that the gen CS are the ones that are really looking for this remote work? Or do you think it’s a kind of the,
Holly Hunt:
Yeah, I definitely think it’s across the board. So we’ve got, you know senior executives who are resigning because they’ve realized that they could, you know, start their own company and work remotely and do, do work on their own terms and, you know, potentially earn more. And you’ve got, you know, younger, younger staff who are being approached by, you know, half a dozen companies a day being offered remote work. So, you know, I think across the board candidates at senior and junior levels have realized that they, they can work with that remote flexibility. And that’s what they want. Again, that purpose and that sense of progression is what candidates want, regardless of whether they’re junior or,
Claire Deane:
And how important is the money conversation. You know, we’re hearing a lot about how salaries are just going crazy, particularly in eCommerce. Are you finding that a candidate might, you know, choose to take not a side of a salary if it does mean that they are able to work on their own terms? Or does, does money still come into it fairly significantly?
Holly Hunt:
Yeah, it really depends on the person. So we’ll see some candidates max out and salary is the number one thing they’re looking for, particularly if they’re less purpose driven, but I think, you know, by and large we’ve seen candidates really look for more purpose. So they’ll be to move, say sideways for a similar salary. We did recently place a candidate in a role that was it’s slightly different. So they had come through one career pathway, they wanted to move sideways into another. And they said, do not request more money than what I’m currently on. I’m really comfortable with that. So they they’ve sort of, you know, they just wanted that career agility. They wanted to be able to move into a different type of role. Yeah, if you’ve got a company where the commercial outcome is number one, such as say, say crypto, for example, is an industry where it’s very commercially oriented candidates are going up max out. I, the biggest salary I can get. So yeah, it depends on the person.
Claire Deane:
Awesome. So how do you think that brands and agencies can really build a great culture in this hybrid or remote work environment? What is the thing that keeps people engaged?
Holly Hunt:
Yeah, well, I think, you know, the, the great thing about working remotely with so many tools is that we, you can do those regular catch ups like we’re doing now online face to face. There’s, there’s really no replacement for like a daily sort of stand up where you regroup and, and make sure everybody’s on the same, same track having a chat about somebody’s night. I think it’s really easy to feel disconnected when you are working remotely. So making sure that everybody keeps connecting and keeps connecting on more than just a work topic is important. There’s plenty of games and resources out there if you, you know, do a little Google. The other thing is to make sure that you can bring people together in person on a semi-regular basis. So some companies will mandate that you have to be one day’s travel away from the office which means you’ll be able to get together on a monthly basis or bimonthly basis and just have that, you know, face to face, catch up, go for a wine, go for lunch and, and build that rapport, I think yeah, there, there’s definitely a move towards, you know, a bit of a hybrid in environment.
Holly Hunt:
People want to be able to get into the office a couple times a week now where a hundred percent remote used to seem like the best, the best outcome. But people miss that face to face connection. So where you can facilitate that, I think, you know, agencies can win.
Claire Deane:
Definitely. How do you think that the opening of waters is gonna impact PR and marketing industries when it comes to talent? Are people, are we seeing, you know, a big influx of talent from the UK or are we still expecting it to stay fairly static?
Holly Hunt:
Yeah, well, we’re definitely still seeing a lot of movement from down south. So Melbourne and Sydney moving up to Brisbane, which is fantastic. And then looking at opening up borders yet. We’ve got people moving in Australians who, you know, have been based in the us UK Singapore, for example, moving back to Australia and, you know, opening up the borders is gonna become even easier. Plus non-A Australians moving into Australia and just wanting that better, a lifestyle and that kind of, that halo effect that’s been around Australia through COVID is definitely drawing in more talent. I think the number one thing will be for agencies and sort of companies to move as quickly as they can, where they do meet a great candidate. It’s very easy. I think if you are not familiar with the companies that they’ve worked with if they’re from the us or the UK to kind of, you know, be on the fence about whether or not to hire them. But they’ll just get snapped up by another company. So do you do due diligence where you meet somebody from overseas, but do it quickly? Because yes, the, the talent shortage, I think will slowly ease over the next six to 12 months.
Claire Deane:
Awesome. So final question. What was the last thing you Googled for work?
Holly Hunt:
Oh, after watching Jessy’s interviewI need to know more about this. So Web3 definitely. She’s amazing. I need to invite her in for a lunch to learn at our company.
Claire Deane:
Yes. Yes. It was just so interesting the way she was talking about how companies need to shift that focus from the top of the funnel and trying to just get to a conversion and really shifting towards how do you maintain that loyalty long term to kind of imbue these assets with, with value beyond after the purchase. So, yeah, she’s fascinating. Yeah,
Holly Hunt:
Exactly. And fun enough. We just recruited an eCommerce manager for her.
Claire Deane:
So tell me where can people find you if they’re looking for you?
Holly Hunt:
Yeah. So reach out to me on LinkedIn or to shoot me an email, holly@huntandco.io. We’d love to have a chat and see if I can add any more value.
Claire Deane:
Amazing. Thanks so much.
Holly Hunt:
Awesome. Thanks Claire.
