Jessy Cameron, Chief Customer Experience Officer and Partner of Meld Ventures, and founder of Molten Store and Giltfree joins Flaunter General Manager, Claire Deane in the first of our 2022 Trends in PR video series.
Jessy shares why NFTs are turning the traditional customer buyer funnels on their heads, where PRs can learn more about Web3 and some of her favourite examples of fashion brands leveraging the metaverse.
Interview Transcript
Claire Deane:
Well, thank you Jessy, for joining me today. Jessy is the chief customer experience officer and partner at Meld Ventures and she’s also the founder of Molten Store Giltfree. So you are doing some amazing things in the NFT, blockchain, metaverse space, and I’d love to know how you became interested in the metaverse, what you currently doing in this space and why you’ve kind of made this not so much shift because you’re still doing all of your physical product stuff, but why you’re kind of loving this, virtual approach to marketing and PR moving forward.
Jessy Cameron:
Yeah, totally. So I’ll start by saying a lot of the words you mentioned. There are very confounding to a lot of people and rightly so, because in all honesty, the space itself around NFT, what we would colloquially refer to as Web3 is still so new and so nascent. So, how I got involved was, look historically I’ve always been a big fan of digital. When I started my career in PR actually around 2010, I was working for an e-commerce fashion boutique at the time, it was back when there weren’t a lot of boutique executions at all on the internet. You know, this is pre-Instagram to kind of carbon date myself there, but yes, I’ve always been a big fan of the digital, the experiential qualities of a digital execution. And also I’ve always been very in love with the fact that, you know, you can truly reach a niche audience on an absolute bigger scale via digital execution. So how I got involved in Web3, I work with a blockchain company. So I’m a partner at Meld Ventures and we basically back the next generation of entrepreneurs within the space. The metaverse in short is the future internet, NFTs are the totems by which value is exchanged on the internet. So for us it makes perfect sense to stay very across that space.
Claire Deane:
Awesome. So that would be how you would describe the metaverse and NFTs to those who are uninitiated?
Jessy Cameron:
I think to start with the metaverse, I mean, everyone’s got their own opinion that about what it is. And I think for a lot of people potentially the word metaverse either evokes, you know, a connotation of Mark Zuckerberg, his Meta execution, or maybe you think of people with VR headsets. There are definitely some purists who do believe that the physical, VR element of the metaverse experience is the future. But in all honesty, I think the easiest way to think about the metaverse, at least the way I like to think about it, is it’s a persistent internet experience. It’s a more interesting experience than how we currently use the internet now. So, without getting too technical about it, you know, when you’re a user on the internet, you’re actually moving in between different walled gardens. So for example, you’re in Facebook and then you go into Instagram and then you go into eBay and then you go into whatever.
Whereas in a metaverse execution, you’re actually able to move more freely from one to another. And essentially that means being able to take assets from here and move them over here in a really seamless fashion, actually getting there is going to be a long road and it’s going to take a lot of collaboration, but there’s a genuine ground swell within Web3 of people who are really keen to make it. So I’d also add that when it comes to metaverse, you’ve got your centralized and decentralized version of metaverses crypto diehards, genuinely believe in a decentralized metaverse where there is no central, point of data, whereas a centralized experience is a little bit more like the tech traditions we see play out in Web 2.0. Regardless, what Web3 in general, which brings me to NFTs, is ownership and sovereignty over our identity.
So for instance, in Web 2.0, we don’t own our data. And as a result, we are the product. And to an extent, some people really take that for granted, right, but where that starts to become a real friction point is that we are operating within those walled gardens I mentioned before that, are very dependent on either subscription or ad revenue models. And as a result for marketers and PRS, we will never have an opportunity of actually truly owning the relationship between our brands and our audiences. This is one of the things that Web 3 seeks to address. Lastly, NFTs, look, if we talk about owning the relationship peer to peer brand to customer, NFT is a way to actually move a store of value from one PR to another on the internet. I can elaborate on this shortly, but what I would say is that NFTs began as an experiment in move a digital asset and moving it from one place to another.
Jessy Cameron:
But very quickly the industry started to ask the questions around, you know, okay, yes, you can own something unique. That is a digital asset as opposed to a physical, but why do you want to own it to begin with why does anyone want to own anything? And this is where we actually start to see people really execute, particularly in the fashion industry around entities that are imbued with a reason for people wanting to own them in the first place.
Claire Deane:
And what are some of those reasons for people wanting to own them in the first place?
Jessy Cameron:
So, great question. So if I could answer it in a roundabout way, because this is probably the most helpful way to think of why utility in NFT matters. So in your traditional customer funnel, you’ve basically got a scenario where a brand will spend money to try and like woo a customer like you try and build up that brand awareness.
Jessy Cameron:
You try and build up that, know sense of you, try and build up that sense of loyalty between the brand and the customer. You get to a point where the customer is so in love with your business, that they decide to have a conversion, they’ll buy from you, they’ll whatever. And at that point, usually the brand, their work is done like they’ve made the sale and you can definitely make the case for people wanting to over time, retain that customer and actually get them back to sell again. But NFT has actually flipped this paradigm. And instead you have a conversion point that occurs early, which is the person acquiring the NFT and then its value is really dependent on how much people want to hold it over time. So thinking through the lens of, okay, let’s say you’ve purchased an NFT, its value depends on how many people would like to purchase it from you.
Jessy Cameron:
It’s, what’s referred to as the floor price, which hopefully goes up as the perceived value of the NFT increases. If we relate this back to modern day consumer behavior, you’re basically saying, okay, brand sells NFT to customer. And then in order for every customer to remain tethered to that NFT and wanting to keep holding it and not flipping it on the secondary market, that brand has to really work at nurturing a long term relationship with that NFT holder. So this is where we come back to utility and go, okay, the best executions we’re seeing at the moment, look at NFTs less as digital art, more like a, a loyalty token.
Jessy Cameron:
So it’s really interesting to think about it the other way that it is about kind of maintaining that value with that thing over time and also with the wider audience too, because you’re wanting to encourage, them to want to purchase it so that the, the actual investment price goes up or the base price goes up completely. And even if we sort of lean away from, you know, the speculative notion of value, I think this is where we look at the concept of brand engagement and we say, okay, think of the NFT as literally just a signifier that you are a part of something. And you know, this is one of the reasons why merch is exciting to people like everyone loves getting merch, I don’t know the stickers that come with Glossier orders and things like that, for example, because it’s that little to of like, brand to customer, we see you, we really appreciate that you are here.
Jessy Cameron:
So I think that appreciation piece definitely flows really true through a lot of projects within NFT, but it is that long term utility that actually amplifies it from appreciation into the realm of exclusivity. This is where I’ll also say that there are definitely some NFT projects that are by price definition, exclusive in a bit of a bit of a dated way. You know, I think old luxury is so much about keeping people out and only letting a few people in. Whereas new luxury is really about how you actually maintain an elevated brand while still being able to deliver an experience that feels a bit more democratic. And if I look at what’s happening in NFT land, there are so many great examples of brands who are using their NFT to constantly surprise and delight people who hold it with bonus content exclusive behind the scenes tickets access to, even like private discord channels or, you know, private social media channels that you wouldn’t be able to enter unless you are an NFT holder. It’s almost like a pass to a secret club in that sense,
Claire Deane:
Similar to what the Australian Open has just done, where if you are, if you purchase the NFT and then the ball actually lands in that particular square of the court you get additional benefits and exclusive events and things tied with that as well.
Jessy Cameron:
Look, I thought their execution was amazing. The team who did that were absolutely brilliant. And I think what they did really well is they linked the excitement of actually being on court to the actual digital experience. They really leaned into what about the Australian Open as a brand people really connect to it and that’s what they manifested through NFTs, which is awesome.
Claire Deane:
So for all of this innovation and everything that’s happening around this, why is it really important for brands to understand about Web3 and how do you think these technologies are going to impact their roles and the wider industry moving forward?
Jessy Cameron:
Look, it’s a good question. I think, in short, you know, I touched upon a moment ago about the, I suppose, the, the brand engagement piece, I think, and NFT is actually an incredibly cost effective way for you to directly own a relationship with your customer. And, you know, at the moment it will cost you let’s say it costs you a couple hundred dollars to acquire a customer through social media marketing, depending on your product, how obviously, but you can look at what you’d spend actually to mint an NFT, and distribute. And it actually starts to become yeah, really cost effective where the spend would have to occur is in that long term utility and the long term investment in the community building around NFTs. But in all honesty, if done well, the return on investment is really, really strong. So I’d say that’s first and foremost, the second one is the entertainment value. You know, like at the moment there’s still so much PR-ability around doing an NFT series. Well, it is still such a nascent space. And, you know, I think the media is really, really interested in what’s occurring and is looking for really unusual and novel use case of brands doing this sort of thing well.
Claire Deane:
Definitely. So tell me, what do you think are the real benefits apart from brands building this relationship with their customers, the benefits to fashion lifestyle, beauty brands of participating in Web3?
Jessy Cameron:
Yeah. Look, my gosh, there’s so much to say here. So, look, if we come back to the idea of Web3, you can sort of look at it through two different lenses, right? You can look at it through its technical function, and then you can also look at it through its experiential lens. So if we look at the technical function and of course I will admit that the space is very nascent and the access isn’t super easy. Crypto’s not really renowned for its ease of onboarding, although that is changing. Thank goodness. I would say that there’s so much to gain in terms of what we’d refer to as transformative value. So for instance, there are different executions where using Fendi as an example, partnered with, I believe it was Ledger to create an actual fashion piece that had a connectivity into, like a digital currency experience. And I look at that and it was a revenue model that they partnered on and that’s a good example of, you know, Fendi, essentially creating a brand new revenue stream that didn’t exist because that product category within their business didn’t exist before Web3. So we are seeing a couple of really cool examples like that, but on the experiential side and personally, I think this is where we have like the biggest opportunity, it’s the metaverse as a concept is it’s a more immersive version of web 2.0. If I can give you a quick history lesson, Web 1.0 connected people to search it connected us to information, Web 2.0, connected us to social.
Jessy Cameron:
It connected us to each other. And it also heralded what we would call the read and write era of the internet, which basically meant that you could actually edit websites yourself. So things like Wikipedia, WordPress, Blogspot, anyone remembers that one. Back in the day, totally the polyvore era as I like to call it, that’ll test some people I’m sure. But whereas Web3 is really about, having more agency, everyone, having more agency over their internet experience, which is where we come to the peer to peer. You know, even if you think about things like Bitcoin, which were early, I suppose examples of what the blockchain could be used for. Bitcoin essentially was a peer-to-peer way to actually move a digital currency. And admittedly Bitcoin definitely fell on its sword like so many early adopters do in terms of its brand.
Jessy Cameron:
It became synonymous with things that feel very at odds with, you know, how Web3 behaves now, but that’s the learning journey that it went on.
Claire Deane:
So what do you think some of these short term trends are, you know, in the next six months, what are PRS going to be seeing happening? And then what’s going to be, you know, the next couple of years.
Jessy Cameron:
So short term, I think that immersiveness of the metaverse, is really something that we’re going to continue to see accelerate. There are lots of really interesting products on the market like Sandbox, Roblox, cryptobox is, is another one that basically offer, you know, people, the ability of actually stepping inside and creating their version of a digital world. We’ve seen lots of really good examples of brands who’ve actively been building in the space and, and, you know, it presents all these cool ways for brands to actually create a collaboration between what their brand stands for and what these different metaverse experiences stand for.
Jessy Cameron:
So a really good example is, Gucci partnered with Roblox in, I think it was May of last year and did Gucci Garden. So Gucci Garden was actually an installation in Florence, super, super gorgeous. They recreated the installation within Roblox to enable more people to actually step into it. If you couldn’t come to Florence, which I’m sure a lot of people couldn’t in May, 2021, you could definitely attend in Roblox and what we saw here, wasn’t just showing up and being in the Gucci space, the actual execution lent itself to people understanding the collection more deeply. So it was a series of rooms within Roblox that all were different manifestations of Gucci’s range. And as your avatar moved through the spaces your avatar took on different forms that actually imbued the prints of the collection. So it’s just those, it’s the little things that really surprise and delight and, you know, deliver that genuine sense of awe and engagement.
Jessy Cameron:
And I have to say as well, if no one, if, if people watching us have never been in a metaverse, just jump in and give it a whirl. It’s akin to, I’m not sure if many of the audience are gamers, but it’s, it’s akin to actually experiencing a video game. Like, yes, you are sitting in front of a screen, but if the narrative is strong enough, you really do feel like it’s a very immersive experience and you jump back onto Web 2.0 as a counterpoint. And it definitely feels like you’re navigating a, I don’t know, something very flat and two dimensional in comparison.
Claire Deane:
And so at the moment you think in that short term, it’s more about brands collaborating with existing walled gardens, as you were saying, like Roblox or the existing channels and creating assets and content within those existing gardens in the short term?
Jessy Cameron:
Well sort of, so Roblox is actually a metaverse, so I wouldn’t call it a walled garden necessarily, but with that in mind, in terms of the actual collaborations, I definitely think executing a tangible experience within a metaverse is awesome. So for example, a couple of things that spring to mind, our brands could look to host AMAs within metaverses. So instead of actually hosting like a Twitter space or, or doing something on Clubhouse, they could actually send everybody the address to the destination within a metaverse people can show up as their avatar and participate. So things like that really do give the customer a stronger connectivity to whatever it is that they’re taking part in. Versus let’s say, for example, the experience of actually reading an article on a two dimensional website that, you know, you, you can’t participate, you’re just a consumer. Whereas I feel like Web3 leans less into consumerism and more into that spirit of the collector. It’s somebody who travels through the internet as opposed to content, which is what happens right now in social. I’d also say as well, even looking at the idea of tying physical items to digital NFTs, and then also I mentioned before about transformative value, there’s a couple of really interesting executions we’re seeing in brands that create digital products that are just as, it’s not more covetable than a real-world asset. And while that might sound crazy, it is all tied to gamification. So for instance, there’s a really, really charming projects. I love in the fashion industry called Aglet. It’s a digital sneaker collectibles business, and basically it’s kind of like, and Pokemon go, but for sneaker freaks, you create an account that gives you a pair of shoes.
Jessy Cameron:
Now you can actually earn or purchase the currency, their Aglet, which is their in app currency. With this currency, you can purchase different kinds of sneakers and the way you actually earn Aglet is by walking around in the real world. But here’s the thing, the app connects to the weather in your location, and depending on what the weather’s doing, your sneakers will either stay mint condition, or they will depreciate. If, for example, you take them out in the rain. So the emphasis here is about encouraging people to get out and about because the more you walk, the more Aglet you earn, but also they’re encouraging you to be really clever about your sneaker choice because you’ll earn less Aglet and your digital assets will actually depreciate in value as you’re walking around in bad weather.
Jessy Cameron:
So the onus is really on you to make sure that you keep collecting. It’s a very, very clever way of a brand actually fostering engagement. I also should mention that these sneakers, that they’ve created in the app actual partnerships with brands like Vans. So this is a good example of, you know, a really cool Web3 product collaborating with what is a very, very traditional brand, which is Vans and bringing that digital experience into the real world as well, like that, you know, tying it to the weather and tying how you’re walking around. It’s not just an experience that you have on your screen. It does come into the real world as well. Totally. And if I could come back to that idea of the metaverse, you know, what is the metaverse everyone has their own, definition. One that I come back to quite often is that, you know, the metaverse has been here for years.
Jessy Cameron:
I mean, even right now, I can request a car on my phone. I can watch its movements. I can pre-determine the music that will be playing in the car. And I walk outside my apartment and I step in and it is as I anticipated. So that for me is an example of an internet that is persistent and that really the lines between IRL and URL are definitely very blurred. Awesome.
Claire Deane:
And so who do you think that PRS and marketing departments need on their teams to be able to leverage this?
Jessy Cameron:
Look, that’s a really hard question. I have to say one of the biggest challenges right now is in Web3, we’re finding, , the space is just so, so new and yeah, it’s, I wish I had a better answer. What I would say is that it’s probably rather than saying here is the answer, I’d probably say, look, that is million dollar question. I can tell you now we’re definitely getting a lot of obviously tech natives, into the space, we’re getting a lot of customer experience, obsessed people as well. So marketers in particular are really, really interested. I think the reason we’ve seen so much energy around fashion sport in blockchain is because they’re industries that are traditionally, always on the cusp of culture. They’re the ones with the finger on the pulse. So yeah, while I can’t necessarily tell you who people will need on their team, I definitely will say it’s an emerging space. And for the record, the space itself needs as much diversity at the outset. A woman I spoke to a couple of weeks ago now said something brilliant that really stayed with me. She said that blockchain is such a new industry, if we get the diversity piece right now, don’t have to do what every other industry on the planet is doing, which is trying to kind of like course correct while the ship is already often, often full steam. So what I would say is if there’s anyone out there watching this, who’s been remotely intrigued by either anything we’ve spoken about today, or just the metaverse and NFTs and web3 in general, start hacking away. The space needs you.
Claire Deane:
So where can PRS actually learn more about the metaverse if you are, you know, listening along and they interested in this, where can you up your skills?
Jessy Cameron:
Well, lots of places, beyond Googling it there’s two places in particular that I like to go to. The first one is TikTok. So I actually literally just searched the hashtags NFT, metaverse. There’s definitely a lot of chatter, but I’m starting to see some really interesting key opinion leaders actually show themselves there.
Jessy Cameron:
The second one is I would actually say rather than relying on publications, telling you what the metaverse is, because remember the space is so new and the interpretations that are being fed through media may or may not be super close to the action. You’re so much better off actually leaning into the people who are actively building, where those people are for the most part, they’re three places, there’s LinkedIn, there’s Twitter and there’s Discord. So what I would be doing is I would be looking for key opinion leaders in those areas and then just follow them and then jump on and follow whoever they follow something I love to do. Cause I, I personally really like LinkedIn, I’ll search the hashtag Web3 and I’ll see who’s talking about it. And if anyone’s saying something interesting, I’ll then go through the comments and I’ll look for people who’ve actually, you know, contributed interesting feedback or dialogue to that actual discussion.
Jessy Cameron:
And that’s, that’s essentially how I’ve managed to curate a LinkedIn, which is basically people who have opinions that I find really fascinating.
Claire Deane:
And is there anybody in particular that you’d call out as being a great opinion leader in the space?
Jessy Cameron:
Yeah. What I can do if you like is, I’ll supply some links and maybe you can share. Cause honestly there are some really great people for sure.
Claire Deane:
So final question. What are some of your favorite examples? You’ve mentioned a couple over the course of this chat, but any favorite examples or of people who are utilizing Web3 right now?
Jessy Cameron:
Look, I think the Australian Open execution is definitely one that stands out. I just think that their timing was perfect. They you know, they, they harness the mix of the physical destination of the Australian Open. Like that’s actually such an iconic ground, so even that through the utility of the experience was really, really fascinating, absolutely loved what they did there. Another really good example of a brand collaboration in fashion that’s lent into Web3 culture is Balmain and Barbie for Mattel. So they’ve obviously, yeah, it’s really, really cool. So this is kind of new one, I actually think the sale is still a current now it’s that new, but, so I don’t actually have a lot of Intel on how it’s performed, but as a fan of both brands I’ve looked at and thought that’s a really clever mashup of actually utilizing digital NFTs that have a utility that enable and access that is almost like that loyalty play we describe before, but then also leaning into the iconic desirable convertible collectible of the Barbie dolls themselves. So yeah, definitely worth a look.
Claire Deane:
Seems like a lot of collaboration is really where the space is at at the moment.
Jessy Cameron:
Yeah. And if I may, without sounding super cheesy about it, I think that’s the spirit of Web3. There’s an acronym, which is WAGMI, which is ‘We’re All Gonna Make It’. And it’s an acronym. That’s really a good one, if you’re looking for people on Twitter who are talking the talk, searching the hashtag WAGMI, you’ll get a lot of the people who are actually coming out of the woodwork and showing up with enthusiasm because Web3, really, without sounding, too much of like a sign holder, Web3 is intended to give back what Web 2.0 took away, which is, you know, the web was supposed to be really democratic and to enable the free exchange of information ideas. And there’s an article that I absolutely love, which I feel like I reference in conversations, anyone who will listen, often, uh, it was written in 2008 super ahead of its time.
Jessy Cameron:
And it’s called 1000 True Fans. And the author argues that the internet should have provided a scenario where every creator would only need 1000 true fans to actually make a living on the internet. So not, not be rich, but make a living. Whereas what happened is these intermediaries, like Spotify, YouTube, et cetera, stepped in the middle and sold access. Whereas what they were actually doing is restricting the, peer to peer that the internet could have enabled. And, you know, we’ve all come to sort of accept that’s the case. So when it comes to PR for instance, if we loop back to the distribution of information, we are used to having to go through some sort of an intermediary, whether it be a journalism platform or Twitter or whatever it is. Whereas in this new Web3 economy, we are seeing all these micro communities emerge. I think PRs great challenge in the future is going to be figuring out how to actually hook into those taste communities and make sure that the right messages are reaching the right people. Cause I think that flow of information is going change completely.
Claire Deane:
Anything else you wanna add?
Jessy Cameron:
And honestly, like I think, have no fear. Like I certainly, for everything I learn, I accumulate like two or three questions, but I would say that if you approach this whole space with a degree of humility and remember that you don’t have to be a techie to really go get involved, if you are a techie wonderful, but if you’re not, which you know, it’s certainly not necessarily my background. I, I love community. I love brand building. I love customer experience and therefore that’s what fuels my fascination for Web3. So yeah, don’t be afraid to get out there and learn some new stuff.
Claire Deane:
Amazing. Well, thank you so much for joining us. Can you share where we can find you?
Jessy Cameron:
Yeah, absolutely. So, LinkedIn, as I mentioned, that’s probably the best way to connect with me. And look, if anyone watching this wants to have a yarn about this anytime. Yeah. Come at me in the DMS.
